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Kingdom Hearts, "All Wrong" (Riku/Roxas)
OHMIGOD WHAT! KAY ACTUALLY POSTED FIC ON HER FIC JOURNAL! Yes I'm still here.
Warnings: Some nonconsensual R-rated misleadingness ahead, so beware. I am so mean to Riku it's not even funny. Of course, Roxas probably deserves some pity here too. Spoilers for Riku in KH2.
.all wrong.
He didn't know how it had all gone so wrong.
The body under Ansem's twisted and kicked out, and eyes so blue as to make him feel like he was drowning were rendered utterly unfamiliar when narrowed in fury and fear. It was almost a relief, but he didn't let relief soften him. He held the boy down mercilessly, using his greater height and weight to its utmost advantage. The boy was strong, all lithe muscle along his slender frame visible now without his coat -- but no match for Ansem. In the end, he was bound to be defeated by his vulnerable position and raw youth.
He was going to be sick.
Ansem gasped as a knee nearly slammed into his side and he had to spare a hand to wrestle the boy's leg down; he held thin wrists in one hand, more than hard enough to bruise, hard enough to wring tears from a lesser person. But the boy never stopped bucking and trying to shake him off, never stopped cursing him, hissing, "Get off of me, you sick bastard--"
In this position, pinned to his back and and arms held rigidly high, summoning keyblades would not help him.
Sora would never forgive him if he knew. Never.
And in every choked, pained sound as the boy aggravated his own injuries -- in every frustrated whimper as another attempt to get loose was thwarted -- he could hear Sora.
Strangled, Ansem barked, "DiZ! Hurry!"
He was shuddering when the door to the chamber finally opened with a sickening screech; the boy's struggles increased, lifting his spine off the ground, and for his efforts Ansem shoved him back hard enough for his head to make a sickening crack. For a moment the boy slumped, dazed and moaning.
In that same heartbeat Ansem was up, backing away. DiZ crouched down next to the boy and stuck a needle into the bare skin of his arm. The boy noticed and tried to tear his arm away, but too late -- the powerful drug swept into his system, numbing his senses. Another heartbeat, three, four, and then the boy slumped to the ground, unconscious.
Even at rest, the accusing lines did not ease from his face.
"Troublesome creature," said DiZ, cold. "It seems we shouldn't have allowed him to be loose. The simulation is nearly fully-prepared, but perhaps I shall have to cut a few corners."
It must have been easy to be analytical, to sneer at the 'creature' on the floor as if it weren't a person, when DiZ wasn't the one who had to restrain it-- Felt the boy writhe and tremble and cry out in some horrible parody of intimacy under him, an unintended echo of the lust he had painted in his mind though he tried to fight it because it was wrong, wrong-- Known unshakably that the 'creature' was as human as he was.
Perhaps moreso.
He was the monster. It was him, had always been him.
Riku, not Ansem, went to sit on the floor in the room where Sora slept, and tried to remember the face of his best friend without looking -- the laughter, the grins, the way it brightened when he saw the older boy approach. But he only kept seeing the twisted rage in Roxas's face, until the odd warmth of the room made him forget about how stained with darkness he felt. He didn't hear her soft footsteps, but he slowly eased into sleep and dreamed memories.
Warnings: Some nonconsensual R-rated misleadingness ahead, so beware. I am so mean to Riku it's not even funny. Of course, Roxas probably deserves some pity here too. Spoilers for Riku in KH2.
.all wrong.
He didn't know how it had all gone so wrong.
The body under Ansem's twisted and kicked out, and eyes so blue as to make him feel like he was drowning were rendered utterly unfamiliar when narrowed in fury and fear. It was almost a relief, but he didn't let relief soften him. He held the boy down mercilessly, using his greater height and weight to its utmost advantage. The boy was strong, all lithe muscle along his slender frame visible now without his coat -- but no match for Ansem. In the end, he was bound to be defeated by his vulnerable position and raw youth.
He was going to be sick.
Ansem gasped as a knee nearly slammed into his side and he had to spare a hand to wrestle the boy's leg down; he held thin wrists in one hand, more than hard enough to bruise, hard enough to wring tears from a lesser person. But the boy never stopped bucking and trying to shake him off, never stopped cursing him, hissing, "Get off of me, you sick bastard--"
In this position, pinned to his back and and arms held rigidly high, summoning keyblades would not help him.
Sora would never forgive him if he knew. Never.
And in every choked, pained sound as the boy aggravated his own injuries -- in every frustrated whimper as another attempt to get loose was thwarted -- he could hear Sora.
Strangled, Ansem barked, "DiZ! Hurry!"
He was shuddering when the door to the chamber finally opened with a sickening screech; the boy's struggles increased, lifting his spine off the ground, and for his efforts Ansem shoved him back hard enough for his head to make a sickening crack. For a moment the boy slumped, dazed and moaning.
In that same heartbeat Ansem was up, backing away. DiZ crouched down next to the boy and stuck a needle into the bare skin of his arm. The boy noticed and tried to tear his arm away, but too late -- the powerful drug swept into his system, numbing his senses. Another heartbeat, three, four, and then the boy slumped to the ground, unconscious.
Even at rest, the accusing lines did not ease from his face.
"Troublesome creature," said DiZ, cold. "It seems we shouldn't have allowed him to be loose. The simulation is nearly fully-prepared, but perhaps I shall have to cut a few corners."
It must have been easy to be analytical, to sneer at the 'creature' on the floor as if it weren't a person, when DiZ wasn't the one who had to restrain it-- Felt the boy writhe and tremble and cry out in some horrible parody of intimacy under him, an unintended echo of the lust he had painted in his mind though he tried to fight it because it was wrong, wrong-- Known unshakably that the 'creature' was as human as he was.
Perhaps moreso.
He was the monster. It was him, had always been him.
Riku, not Ansem, went to sit on the floor in the room where Sora slept, and tried to remember the face of his best friend without looking -- the laughter, the grins, the way it brightened when he saw the older boy approach. But he only kept seeing the twisted rage in Roxas's face, until the odd warmth of the room made him forget about how stained with darkness he felt. He didn't hear her soft footsteps, but he slowly eased into sleep and dreamed memories.
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My favorite part of this is probably the final paragraph. First, the transition to Riku is so pointed and nicely-timed. Reminds me of CFUD's Riku-mun's assertion that Riku became Ansem not to be stronger but because he couldn't kidnap and cause Roxas to cease to exist and still be the person he believed himself to be. This demonstrates it quite interestingly -- Riku can only consider himself Riku as long as he's not doing horrible, unspeakable things. And also, the appearance by Namine at the end is subtle and lovely. It, and the transition to "Riku", and the way Sora's described, all make the moment seem soft and pretty. And then it ends on this drained, colorless note, and *whimper*
So, you rock. You rock so much. ♥
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Sometimes I think Namine could be the only thing that keeps half these losers from going crazy -- and of course, in a way she's also responsible for a lot of their suffering, too.
Lalala, I was so lazy that when I finally got around to posting both these drabbles, I forgot to edit as you advised. Uh, well. YOU GIVE LAME ADVICE.
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I wonder if he'd still get the same reassurance off a conscious Sora. Seems like then he'd be full of misery and unable to meet Sora's eyes. And Sora would be all, "Uh...Riku? You're...staring at the floor." And Riku would choke and excuse himself from the room.
...But Namine's great? Now, if only she could make him forget any of this ever happened. (But, as established in CoM, Riku wouldn't choose that path anyway. ...Of course, it's weird that his memories weren't messed up, that he didn't remember Namine as a substitute Kairi when supposedly everyone attached to Sora would -- but Namine's whole memory-change!!! power is kind of plot-hole-y. XD And I've ranted about that before~.)
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I mean, the idea that Sora would never forgive him? Totally spot on, and that makes the final paragraph so much better.
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It's such a Riku sort of mentality: he knows better, but he can't really internalize it. Sora is this idealized figure for him of purity and everything he misses, and so he wants to think that he's fallen too far, but at the same time, he knows that for that reason there's nothing Sora wouldn't forgive him for. XD
...although I'm sure Sora would be horrified at what happened, I doubt he'd pin the blame on Riku.
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I know about the "no one would miss me" line and that apparently he was kidnapped and put into Twilight Town. Is there some explanation in the game about why he was upset? When he was kidnapped? Also, do you know where in the game it talks about the two Riku/Roxas fights?
Also, I'm going through your journal here and obsessing over all the awesomeness. It's beginning to tickle the idea that I need to draw some more KH2 fanart.
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Roxas was brought into the Organization very early on after he was created. He had a little over a year there. During the events of Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories, Sora's memories were tampered with, but without Roxas, he wasn't complete and it was difficult to reconstruct him. It would've been possible in time, but almost a year passed and no significant progress was made, and so DiZ decided to have Riku retrieve Roxas, so that they could use him to put Sora back together. Without Roxas, he told Riku, Sora would never be whole again.
So Riku went into The World That Never Was and attacked Roxas, but Roxas defeated him. However, Riku did manage to say a few things that disturbed Roxas -- "how do you have the keyblade," and apparently he mentioned Sora's name. Roxas went back to Never Was and was very upset. Started asking questions. He suddenly really badly wanted to know the answer to a question he'd never asked before -- why DOES he have the keyblades? No one could answer him, but Roxas starts thinking that Sora, his Somebody, would know.
So Roxas left Organization XIII. He meets Riku again and begins the encounter by demanding, "Where is Sora?" This time Riku has a Cunning Plan and defeats him, then brings him back to DiZ. The second encounter is covered in Deep Dive/Another Side Another Story, the secret video at the end of KH1. The first encounter is covered during Roxas's prologue in bits and pieces of flashback. Riku also talks about these encounters once he joins the party at the end of the game.
Hope that's helpful for you. ♥
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sexystaring match down the side of the building. Interesting!I dled some 42 minute long video today which is suppose to do justice to Roxas's story called "Before Sora" off Google video.
Due to one of your fics on here, I'm not sure which, I've found that I have a kink for Riku/Roxas. Must go find more goodness of this sort!
One thing that has bothered me from what I've seen in cutscenes is that while its obvious Axel is all about Roxas, Roxas never seems to give a damn. Especially there where he emerges out of Sora to talk to Namine. I was hoping for a reaction out of Roxas of some sort over Axel's death. I love the pairing and all the different angles and who tops discussions and stuff. But I'm personally afraid that there isn't much canon evidence to support Roxas's feelings. :-(
Your fics are contemplating that Twilight Town is completely a fake personality, which I do agree with (he just seems more like himself when he's beating stuff up), but the Roxas at the end of the game is so damn cheerful. Which is real? It's confusing.
Thank you so much for your explanations! It is truly helpful! Now I'll go back to "thirteen.and.one."
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I heard that Nomura said that there was supposed to be a lot more about Axel towards the end of the game, but it all had to be cut out for the same reason that the Roxas/Sora duel was just a cutscene and not an actual battle. Not enough time, not enough budget.
It's true that in the one cutscene where we see them interacting, Roxas doesn't seem to return the feelings Axel demonstrates for him -- or even show him any civility, technically. But I can't believe that Axel would have fallen quite so hard for him if Roxas was just a total unmitigated ass the whole time.
I think the most telling part is that Axel's not the one who claims they're best friends -- Namine is. Maybe Axel told her that and it stuck, but far more likely is that Namine, who knows Roxas the way she knows Sora, because Sora's heart "remembers" things that Roxas experienced, saw that in Roxas. The fact that she said that means that either A) Roxas felt that way, or B) an outside observer felt that way. Not just friends, but best friends, who stood together against others, against the world~~ So Roxas can't have acted like that all the time.
The canon evidence, honestly, points out exactly the dichotomy we're suggesting: that Roxas took him for granted. After Axel's death, Roxas finds the strength to command his Samurai again, drag Sora down into their heart, duel him. Roxas demands, "Why did [the keyblade] choose you," the same question he left OXIII to answer -- the question that started this whole chain of events. And the implied answer to that is "Because Sora's strength is his friends" -- an important plot point in the first game -- although it's never spoken aloud.
The reason why Roxas isn't strong enough to defeat Sora (and the reason why he left OXIII in the first place and started this chain of events) is because he never believed in Axel the way Axel believed in him.
*they're the most tragic thing ever, weeps!*
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If Roxas was able to feel that way about those kids and what-could-his-life-have-been, I think that its completely possible that he felt a bond with Axel. Especially with Namine's remark about their best friend status. We could always guess that Nomura had to lower the gay a little by not having Roxas's reaction since Axel's was so bleedingly obvious... (though from what I understand, Nomura is quite the independent character).
Mmm. It's still baffling. Roxas of the OXIII does seem very cold, but vulnerable and needy, but he cries when he leaves Twilight Town. He's super excited to see Namine (yay another weird Nobody like me!) when they get to come out, and of course that grin at the end of the game. Very scary.
I say its complicated. While I'm sure no one really wants to be erased completely, its probably a better fate to be enclosed back into your Somebody than to be destroyed. Maybe he's so happy because he finally knows where he belongs?
As for Axel, yeah, there must have been some crazy emotional ties for him to go off the ledge like that during KHII. I've read about how cold and calculating he is in COM. I'd love to see their relationship more.
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Basically, I think it's very telling that the only time we see Nobody!Roxas, the REAL Roxas, he's in his Organization coat. I think that when we see Roxas in his Twilight Town clothes, it's a sign that he's thinking, and reacting, the way his false memories tell him to react. That's not to say that it isn't real in its own way, but I don't think it holds weight against the life he lived before then.
The grin at the end of the game IS very scary. XD It's such a Happy Prozac Child Grin and totally OOC for him~ And I think that it's STILL OOC in context of what you said. Nobody!Roxas was fighting Sora to the very end, and only reluctantly admitted that, "You make a good Other." But that's not the same as "I want to frolic on the beach with Namine and be warmfuzzy." He admitted that maybe it wouldn't be living hell stuck in Sora's head, but the big Prozac grin at the end was NOT the same person.
You have to take Roxas in two layers: the Nobody, and the Twilight Town boy. That's what makes him such a wonderfully complex character to play with.
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I just can't comprehend the smile. Like you said, the real Roxas was in that last fight. So what in the world is going on with all that smiling at the end? Roxas, in a cliche sort of way, seems to be the darker side of Sora. All the stuff that he represses and keeps away from his usual cheerful attitude. Someone called Sora a puppy, and that's exactly what he is. Roxas meanwhile is what Sora would be if Sora wasn't so bent on pleasing everybody and being happy go lucky. I think a lot of people have that duality to them. In serious situtations, the cool-headed part of them (Roxas) is able to be accessed. Except in this case, Roxas is his own seperate entity from Sora.
Either way, the smile at the end just doesn't make much sense. If you take it at face value, you could easily ship Roxas/Namine, Axel be damned. Namine is interesting because you think she'd be the one smiling so happily at the end of the game instead of Happy Prozac Child Grin, but she just barely moves her lips. As you know, there are previous times in the KHII when she is smiling quite freely (when she visits Roxas in T.T.). So what is her deal there in the end? Personality switch again?
Am I the only one who'd be spooked if I knew I had a completely different personality inside of me? That even has its own appearance? Sora and Kairi seem to be taking it in stride.
Do you think that Roxas truly remembers his relationship with Axel? I apologize for asking you so many questions. Axel is so frantic for remembrance (especially if Roxas has really only been gone a week--I think I'd be spooked if my best friend/lover had gone from serious to that normal teenager so quickly). Even the slightest look from Roxas sends him into a million pieces. While it would never fly with Disney to have blantant scenes of them romancing, I wonder if Roxas remembers anything about Axel besides some random person he spoke to.
Mind, I haven't gone through and watched all of the Twilight Town cutscenes yet, so my answers may be in there. Though what I have pieced together so far is that the last time Roxas sees Axel is inside the Mansion and Roxas doesn't seem to care that from Axel's words, he may be dying "see you next life." If they were best friends, surely Roxas would have asked what? and went after him instead of standing there. It makes me question if Roxas has a single clue about what's going on besides having some stalker. I'm not sure when the Namine room comes into play timeline wise, but I've seen Roxas going 0.o at her drawings.
Thank you for putting up with my pestering! I have no one to discuss my new love with so I am truly appreciative of your time and patience with me!
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The smile is kind of bizarre. I think, in part, that it wasn't HIM who made that choice -- that it's more Sora, and the promise he made to Namine. Sora couldn't keep that promise (don't even get me started on how poor Namine got shafted in KH2 ;_; ) but Roxas keeps it in his place. I also noticed that Namine didn't seem very HAPPY compared to Roxas's big druggy grin. I have a LOT of theories about Namine, but there's no canon proof of any of it. My personal interpretation of the matter is: Namine needed to make up for what she did to Sora -> she believed she was incomplete and no one would ever care about her (after Sora rejected her) unless she became part of Kairi again -> she thought Roxas would feel the same way and encouraged them both to what she thought would make them happy -> and it's not quite what she wanted (SORA) but it's close enough, they're both better off this way.
Roxas/Namine is so creepy to me. There's a reason they look so similar. It's because they're twins. XD Both born in the same moment, from the same body, in the same gesture. If you want to make it weird and incestuous, that's one thing, but people who pretend they're just Destined To Be Together without taking into account the fact that they're twins is... weird.
The novelization of KH2 has stated that Roxas never really remembers Axel, not even at the end of the mansion sequence. He remembers only A) his confrontation with Axel when he left, and B) that they had fought before, and that they had both enjoyed it -- it had been fun. (He remembers that while they duel during the struggle tournament.) DiZ's reprogramming, or Namine's tampering, is too complete for that. That's what really breaks Axel. :\ There was no way to get through to him.
That line at the end of their duel is actually rather an awkward translation. Axel isn't saying that either of them will die -- he's saying, very subtly without DIRECTLY saying so, that when Roxas becomes Sora again, he will still be there, still looking out for him. That's why Axel calls him silly when Roxas thinks he means a literal next life. But also remember that Roxas A) doesn't remember him, and B) even if he did remember him, is the kind of guy who had Samurai servants. I think he respected Axel for what he did instead of crying about it, even though Roxas wouldn't go along with it.
I really don't think Roxas had ANY idea what was going on by day six. XD He had no idea who to believe anymore or what to do with himself. All he could do was go on and try to piece his life together. But. ;_;
Hee, I'm always happy to chatter about theories and ideas. XD I'm a big dork for discussion.
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1) Roxas had his two keyblades in Deep Dive, but Axel reacts as if he'd never seen the second one. Would the assumpation be that Roxas only gained the second one after he left the organization?
2) From what you said above, are you implying that Namine has feelings for Sora? I know that having come from Kairi, she might share part of her feelings but...
3) I forgot the other thing. *nooooooooo*
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Hi, you don't know me. XD But I had some thoughts on your questions for Kay-san, so, here goes.
1.) I too am interested in Axel's reaction to the second keyblade. (In the past, Kay-san has suggested that he's surprised to see it in Twilight Town, because Roxas there was so obviously programmed for only one.) But while we don't know why he asked for sure, the answer to your question is no. He didn't gain them after he left the Organization, because he had two when he fought Riku for the first time. Riku is the one who demands to know why he has keyblades, and presumably the one who sets Roxas wondering himself -- and Roxas leaves the Organization to learn why the keyblades chose him.
2.) My answer here is probably different than Kay-san's would be, but. Yes, Namine seems to have feelings for Sora. (I think Namine would have feelings for anyone who thought she was a real person.) But actually, what feelings she has for Sora would be hers and hers alone; Namine has none of Kairi's memories, and thusly no reason to "share" her feelings for Sora. Also, it's interesting that although Namine claims to have merely taken Kairi's place in Sora's memories, his memories of her are distinctly more romantic than the ones he has of Kairi, c.f. the promise he makes to Namine when she's scared during the storm that he'll protect her.
Namine's charm replaces Kairi's, but Kairi gives Sora her charm during the first game as a keychain and makes him promise to give it back because it's her lucky charm. Namine gives Sora her charm when they're five or six because he promises to protect her. It's very different.
And then there's the fact that Sora identifies his feelings for Namine as being romantic, which he never does with his feelings for Kairi even though they likely are. (At the end of Chain of Memories, when Namine tells him that they never knew each other, were never friends, Sora says slowly that they were never "...more than that, either."
Namine also makes herself the focus of Sora's energies, to the point where he's willing to leave Donald and Goofy behind just for questioning the absolute NEED to go further into the castle to find her without considering the fact that they're losing memories, so it's possible that Namine made their attachment romantic just to make it that important -- but presumably she could have done it without. She made herself a boyfriend in addition to a tool for the Organization. And she feels guilty for it later, but, I mean. It's so very easy to picture that part of her really, really wanted him to be romantic for her.
So! Sorry for the interruption. Kay-san will doubtlessly answer you anyway when she has a minute. XD
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1) Roxas's keyblades are different from Sora's, are they not? I know they are called Oblivion and Oathkeeper (correct?), does Sora's have a name? I've seen in the cut scenes that there are actually several keyblades. Your theory makes sense that Roxas should not have access to both. Which makes me wonder about the futher question I put down below:
Ah! I remembered the other thing I've been trying to figure out. Axel is simply going through data breakdown or something via Naminie and DiZ, correct? Yet the Twilight Town he lives in and he must be physically real because Axel and later even Kairi (I think? does she go to the real T.T.?) are able to enter it. How is this possible? Is it all some kind of weird pun on how its a video game and in essence, its all 3D computer graphics?
I am thinking this from the standing point of someone being able to create an entire breathing world around someone. At first I was thinking of Matrix like stuff but then realized that Axel wouldn't be able to blink in if it was all just a grandoise dream forced upon Roxas.
2) Ah, poor Namine. You've highlighted how sad everything is for her. Her sad smile at the end just does not feel right. Despite everything that she has done to Sora, he still cares about her and wants to keep his relationship with her. I find that very promising despite the fact that Sora is a pretty good kid and wants to keep all his friends.
*sad face* I think I'd like Sora too, if I was her. His smile in Kairi's memories when he drew that picture on the wall is quite fetching. Plus he is the hero. Though from what Kay willow has said, Roxas and Namine are twins. Then some inspiration from a gag comic I saw...Sora could vaguely be considered almost the father of Namine since he carried Kairi's heart inside of him. That's pushing it a little and I also agree that Namine probably sees Sora with rose tinted lenses. I think I fall into the category I've seen a lot of people in: I just don't find Kairi all that interesting. Namine is quite a bit more though that could be because we see more of her.
I'm rambling. Need more sleep. Thank you for responding too!
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1.) Roxas's two keyblades ARE Sora's. Let's break it down.
A keyblade has no specific shape of its own. It gets its shape and its name from the keychain equipped to it. The generic keyblade that Roxas wields in Twilight Town early on is using the Kingdom Key keychain. Oblivion and Oathkeeper are the names of two other keychains -- keychains given to Sora in the first game by Riku and Kairi.
(Nooooo, no significance in Roxas having those keychains specifically, NONE AT ALL.)
[Also, technically, just not to misinform you at all, Oblivion isn't given to Sora BY Riku so much as it's in the room where you fight him after you defeat him. But in KHII, you get it a secind time, and you do receive it after meeting up with Riku in The World That Never Was. Oblivion and Oathkeeper make a pretty awesome combination -- Oblivion is +6 to strength, +2 to magic, and has a Drive Boost; Oathkeeper is +3 to both strength and magic and has a Form Boost. They're very complementary.]
So. There aren't several keyblades, just many different keychains that you can equip to it.
Also, technically speaking, both Sora and Roxas only possess ONE keyblade, not two. The going theory is that, through concentration of will, a Keyblade Hero can split his keyblade into two separate blades and equip a keychain to each of them. (This goes along nicely with the "keyblade has no physical form of its own" theory.)
The only Keyblade Hero we haven't yet seen do this with his keyblade is Mickey. (Late in the game, Riku splits his keyblade, Way to the Dawn, into two blades and gives one to Kairi.
The one he gives to Kairi is covered in flowers and just about the gayest thing I've ever seen in my life.)Any way you look at it, though, Roxas really shouldn't have Oblivion and Oathkeeper; he doesn't have the keychains to make them. In an RP Kay-san and I are doing, we've sort of agreed, I think, that the keychains he has aren't real -- that they're shadows of Sora's keychains, and that if he de-equiped them, they'd vanish.
1.5) On Twilight Town: There is a REAL Twilight Town as well as a digital copy of it. The real Twilight Town is apparently where Nobodies usually show up when they're first born. (Roxas was born there; this is why, when Sora visits Twilight Town in Chain of Memories, and says he's never been here before, Vexen informs him that it's a memory from "the other side of [his] heart.") The real Twilght Town is also where DiZ and Namine and Riku all hung out, watching Roxas on monitors in the digital Twilight Town.
(We know this for a fact because, if you'll remember, Roxas breaks the computer display in the digital Twilight Town in a fit of rage; later in the game, when Sora visits the real Twilight Town, he finds an unbroken computer -- the one that DiZ was observing from.)
So, Kairi visits the REAL Twilight Town, not the virtual reality place where Roxas was brainwashed.
Axel's entering the digital Twilight Town is actually pretty interesting -- he basically hacked into DiZ's program. (In the novels, Riku and Namine also see him doing so, and sort of deliberately distract DiZ so that he doesn't notice.) This, as well as some scenes from the Chain of Memories manga, imply that Axel is pretty good with computers.
(In Chain of Memories, Axel was responsible for their security program, and, when he freed Namine, he first scrambled the system so that all of the monitors showed only a bunch of glitchy text instead of images of her and the rest of the Castle.)
This has led to theories on Kay-san's part (and now mine!) that Axel's Somebody was a computer programmer of some sort. Since he seems like he'd be pretty unlikely to invest time in learning how to program himself.
[continued...]
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It IS a dream forced upon him, in a way, but it's a dream with RAM and programming behind it, being played out like a virtual reality videogame -- Roxas has just been programmed so he doesn't know it's not real. All Axel had to do to enter it himself is pick up controller two, so to speak. But he must've done some fairly impressive technowizardry to manage it, because the only way in that we ever saw was a teleporter-looking-thing right next to DiZ the whole time. Axel must've made a hole in the program somehow and just waltzed right in.
2.) Well, if Namine has seen that smile, it's because of her tampering with Sora's memories in-between CoM and KHII -- again, she doesn't start out with any of Kairi's memories. XD (The line in the opening movie, "I want to line the pieces up together," I think refers to how Kairi and Riku's memories are also fractured, but that if all three of them put what they remember together, they'll have the whole picture. It's sweet~. [And I know the English is "yours and mine," not "together," but darn it, the Japanese says "issho ni".]
But what she does to Sora's memories, putting them back together, clearly affects the memories of everyone who knows him. (Between CoM and KHII, Riku and Kairi and everyone else who had ever met Sora forgot he existed. When his memories were almost fully restored, they began to remember things -- this is what the conversation between Riku and DiZ means, where DiZ asks if Riku remembers now, and Riku says it's all falling into place.)
It's true that Roxas and Namine are sort of twins; born from the same body, in the same instant, and neither one of them has their Somebody's memories. (Axel, etc., all remember who they were as Somebodies; Roxas and Namine alone do not. But Namine learns who her Somebody is much, much earlier than Roxas does -- during CoM, she claims that feelings for her will only make Sora's feelings for Namine stronger, because "I'm her shadow.")
But I think I'd like Sora, too, if I were Namine. He's totally the hero who tries to save the princess from her castle -- but Namine doesn't get a fairy tale ending. Instead she has to put her prince to sleep and make him forget she ever existed. I can't imagine that was fun. :(
And Sora being Namine's father is actually something that's occurred to me before. Ahahah. The wrong.
In Kairi's defense, she's more interesting in the manga, where she has some snark. But in the main, I agree with you. Namine is much cooler. XD
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I would love to drag astrophysics in here and babble about dark matter and anti-matter. Or just look over at Philip Pullman's "His Dark Materials" and wonder about the form of things.
I have read interpretations from somewhere that Roxas refers to the keyblade as having choosen Sora. So despite not having its own physical form, the keyblade appears to be the pivotal point in this universe. Which may or may not be directly tied to involvement with whatever Kingdom Hearts exactly is.
Ah! So that's what Kairi's was! I saw it and also had the "gayest thing" vibe. XD This makes my previous couple sentences questionable then if the Keyblade is potentially the thing pulling a lot of the strings, it is so easily pulled apart by whoever yields various forms of itself.
Oooooooooooh!!! So does this mean that Roxas's physical body is not literally in the digital TT? That makes sense. But wow, for Axel being able to put himself into the digital town with all the appearance of his normal self. Also for making his digital body the most expressive one I've seen! *hearts away after him being after my own heart*
(is eating this up--also inspiring me to draw more fanart though right now I'm kinda hung up on drawing Namine)
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Mickey's keyblade is the Keyblade of Darkness, technically -- the keyblade from the Dark Realm, at any rate. I would love to know what it saw in him.
And Riku's is probably the Keyblade of Twilight, if anything. He earned it at some point during KHII, but it doesn't fully come to him until he returns to his true form, whereupon the Soul Eater, that red spiny sword he's carried around for the last three games, BECAME a keyblade.
But, well. Roxas's physical body IS in Twilight Town -- it's just been converted to data. We do see him get sucked into Twilight Town, and his physical body disappears in the process.
(And drawing fanart is good. Particularly Namine! She needs more fanart love~.)
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However, in the last battle with Axel, he summoned TWO keyblades. He wasn't surprised to see them. If you watch a clip of the battle, he obviously knew how to fight with them -- not just as a fluke, but like a MASTER. I think Axel was surprised not because he didn't know Roxas could call two (Nomura has stated that this is Roxas's unique ability; all keyblade masters could THEORETICALLY do it, but it uses the power of the heart. it's very difficult for most, but easy for Roxas because HE doesn't feel the STRAIN on his being -- Sora feels it instead)... but rather, because Roxas calling two means that pieces of him are starting to come back.
Sora's keyblade is the Kingdom Key; Roxas's are Oblivion and Oathkeeper, both shapes that the Kingdom Key takes depending on what keychain is equipped. Oblivion is related to Riku, Oathkeeper is related to Kairi.
It's possible for a keyblade master to call more than one manifestation of his keyblade at a time, and to give it to someone else and allow them to use it, hence how Kairi acquires a keyblade -- it's not her own, it's a piece of Riku's that he made and gave to her.
2) It's very, very strongly suggested that Namine develops feelings for Sora. And they're not Kairi's, they don't exist at the beginning: at first she feels bad for what she's doing to him, but she doesn't seem to feel any attachment to him personally. It's what Sora does for her throughout the story that makes her fall in love with him -- the way he seems so passionately devoted to her, fights for her, saves her, wants to make her happy. I'm sure she knows that a lot of it is forced, but it's also a very Sora way to behave, and she wanted him to feel that way about her for real. If he had, I think she would have been able to be happy.
Take this dialogue.
Naminé: I'm sorry. It's the only way. You have to choose, Sora. You can lose
your memories of this castle and reclaim your old memories...or keep
your memories here and give up the memories that you've lost.
Sora: I have to choose?
Naminé: Yes.
...
Sora: Put me back the way I was.
Naminé: Okay, I understand! Who needs false memories, right? Especially when
you have real memories of people who are really important to you.
Anyone would say the same.
That babble may not admit it, but it SOUNDS like she KNEW logically there was NO REASON to choose her -- but she was still daring to hope. This is convincing herself as well as Sora that she doesn't blame him for his choice. But she WANTED him to choose her.
So see, on Namine's side, there's certainly nothing of Kairi in her feelings for him.
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But you essay Namine better than anyone. I am in such awe.
I can't wait until you essay her for Another Side, I really really can't eee geek.Also, I didn't know that about Nomura's statement. I WANT THESE INTERVIEWS. Where do you find them, gah. XD That's so nifty.
And also means we're possibly cheating pretty bad in AS -- Roxas shouldn't be dual-wielding so easily there. Um. D'oh.Not that Sora wouldn't totally lend him all the strength he could.no subject
I saw that clip on youtube. Also how hard it is for Sora, but even as Namine is able to admit, your real memories are what is most important. I do like his passionate promises to her though.
I think the next natural progression for me to ask is what is known of Kairi's feelings for Sora? I know she misses him and cares about him very much, but... From what I understand, she likes Sora more than Riku.
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Annnnd, I'd say more, but I really have to do some schoolwork. Kay-san is more eloquent than I am, anyway. ;)
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Li-san and I have actually talked about this quite a bit before. Riku and Kairi seem to not be terribly interested in one another romantically. The way Riku speaks about Kairi to Sora and to Kairi herself seems to indicate that they're just friends -- if anything, he's teasing Sora because he thinks Sora likes Kairi, maybe even trying to push them together. And Kairi doesn't seem to think much about Riku: it's Sora she wants to run away with, it's Sora she tells to stay the same no matter what.
I think Kairi may have liked Sora: maybe Riku was just older, or more mysterious, and Kairi appreciated Sora for being straightforward and honest and a hero at heart. Riku was never that sort of hero.
But Sora's grown and changed a lot over the course of the two or so years he's running around on his adventures -- he's very different from who he used to be. I think her reactions to him have changed too, and she's come to realize how important they both are... maybe more than her little girl crush on a little boy can have encompassed. And that doesn't mean it has to be romantic love or that they should all have a threesome. Maybe just that they're... family. Part of her life, forever.
Sora seems to also like Kairi, but when he shows signs of it in KH2, it's kind of... off. He may think of her romantically, but he's still thinking of a little girl, and Kairi has changed a lot, too. I think they're all happy to just be together again, in the end. XD
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I love the word "woobie." Partly I think I'm going to have to give in to fanon and say "dammit, we'll never understand their relationship, but if nothing else is true, I firmly believe Axel and Roxas were lovers." Lovers having a wide range of values from admitting feelings to full-fledge horzonital dances. :-)
I think my twitching eyebrow will go into la-la land and claim that Axel is 18 at the oldest and Roxas 15 to keep me from squicking too badly. Though as Kay said, it doesn't really matter about age. However, what has been bothering me is that Roxas looks so old in some of the promo shots but in the game, he looks like a little kid which exagerates the "pedaphile" vibe you could interupt from Axel if you were so inclined.
Kay also pointed out to me that Roxas never remembers Axel beyond a hazy idea of them having hung out and fought before. Which means it must have been puzzling as all hell to Roxas to have some strange guy acting all heart-broken over you. If not creepy. I sorta believe that while all the fandom started *cough*ing like me over Axel's final words, Sora just did not understand any romantic inclination under Axel's words.
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As I'm not sure whether by "other comment" you mean mine or one I've linked you to in the above comment, I'm going to go ahead and send you here (http://community.livejournal.com/figment_tree/37410.html?thread=232482#t232482), where I address the pedophile question. But I reiterate, it really, really, REALLY doesn't matter. Roxas NEVER gives off the childish vibe. Please, take the word of someone who is nauseated by shouta and despites its existence as a genre; Axel is not a pedophile, because Nobody!Roxas is not a child.
Okay, first. I don't buy that Axel and Roxas were lovers pre-game. I think they were very good friends, period. Because when Roxas leaves the Organization (and very obviously Axel), he says that no one would miss him [if he died]. Axel's objection -- "That's not true! ....I would." -- is ignored by Roxas. I don't know if it's been mentioned to you, but in the novels, it states that Roxas HEARS what Axel says but doesn't believe him, because he thinks Nobodies don't have emotions, and thusly, that Axel CAN'T miss him.
This works if they're friends; it doesn't work if they're lovers. Even if they're just having sex with no strings, I can't imagine that, if they were in a Relationship of some sort, it wouldn't at least OCCUR to Roxas that Axel might mean what he says there. So, no. They weren't lovers.
They are, however, extremely, extremely slashy. You really have to play the game to see it for yourself -- the way Axel talks about Roxas, the soft way, is just too compelling. Especially given that Axel, well.
Let's put it simply: Axel is a BASTARD. In Chain of Memories, he takes out or causes others to take out half the Organization, including people who obviously considered him a friend. He and Larxene seem, in the manga, to enjoy each other's company -- and yet he betrays her and gets her killed without a second thought. Indeed, with the most evil SMIRK on his face. He kills Vexen, or so we think, just to gain Marluxia's trust -- even though he claims, when he fights Marluxia, that he's killing traitors to the Organization, and Vexen was loyal.
Axel kills people he likes without blinking.
Then enter KHII. And Axel, this same incredible bastard who actively enjoyed hurting people and playing with their heads, is falling all over himself for Roxas. When he self-destructs to save Sora, it's something he would've done for Roxas. Someone who seemed to find murder a good way of amusing himself sacrificed himself for someone else.
And Axel's evolution of caring for Roxas is very interesting. In the beginning, he doesn't seem to understand exactly what's happened to Roxas, and just wants him to come back. When he returns with this seemingly-blasé, "Why'd you have to resist, now I've got these icky orders to KILL you if you don't come with me," and Roxas asks, "But we're friends, aren't we?," Axel rubs the back of his neck and says sort of awkwardly, "Well, yeah, but I'm not getting turned into a Dusk for--" and then jolts and gets this happy puppy dog look on his face: "You remember?!" When they fight again, and Roxas really does seem to remember SOME things, Axel's too hurt, too bitter, to stop fighting. "I'm so FLATTERED," he says in this angry tone, and then there's fire everywhere and he tries to kill Roxas.
(Also, in the vein of things he says to Roxas that sound vaguely bitter-ex, Axel's battle cry this time around is "Burn, baby." Now, Hades says something kind of similar, and it's clearly mockery, but Axel doesn't say "baby" like he's taunting Roxas. He says it like he'd say Roxas's name. The whole line is ANGRY, not snarky or playful in the least. "'Baby'? Why would that be taunting? Oh, that's just what I CALL you, didn't you know?")
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But Sora isn't Roxas. And the fact that Roxas chooses to duel with Sora some five minutes later gameplay-wise (you go through only two rooms, but they're full of enemies), kind of says something. I think that Roxas was probably struggling against Sora for both of those rooms, and at Memory's Skyscraper he finally wrenches enough of himself out to attack Sora.
Basically, I'm saying, it would be a huge coincidence for Roxas to just DECIDE to fight Sora right after Axel's death if that wasn't part of what motivated him to want to do it.
But I don't think there WAS necessarily romantic inclination in Axel's words, either. I'm not squealing over omg he said HEART it must be LOVE. Because for Axel, for all Nobodies, discussion of the heart means so much more than just "I like you, tee hee."
I think Kay-san's mentioned to you that in the novels Axel does a monologue about how Nobodies DO have feelings; they feel incomplete, and they identify this incompletition as lacking a heart. (And some of them, like Roxas, clearly do feel that Nobodies are incapable of emotion. Axel just isn't one of them. In fact, in the Japanese, he kind of throws feelings around -- intead of "I would [miss you]," what he says is "I would be sad," and instead of "I'm so flattered," he says "I'm so happy.")
So what does it mean that Roxas made him feel as though he had a heart? It means that Roxas made him feel whole. Someone like HIM. Someone who did all of this murdering with this devil-may-care smile on his lips.
It really...it's just stunning.
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But it's not as OOC as you might think for the guy from CoM, either. A lot of Axel's seemingly random decisions on who to kill seem to have been related to Roxas. When he kills Vexen, it's right as Vexen is about to tell Sora about Roxas's existence; when he threatens Larxene, he tells her not to "break" Sora:
Which all sounds perfectly innocent, until you remember that Axel has no intention of "taking" the Organization.
He and Larxene also have a conversation where she notes that he's not interested in the keyblade but in Sora's heart. [The heart that connects him to Roxas.]
Even when he attacks Marluxia and frees Namine so that she can restore Sora's memories, it's all about Roxas. We don't even know Roxas exists yet, but Axel does -- and everything he does, all the people he kills are directly related to protecting Sora, and by extension, protecting Roxas.
You can look at it one of two ways: Either Axel didn't want Sora being brought back into the Organization because then Xemnas would have had no use for Roxas any longer, or he didn't want him being brought back because he suspected that the two would merge if they ever met, and Roxas would cease to exist. Either way, it's for Roxas's sake.
(And, I imagine, he doesn't want Sora broken by Larxene because who the hell knows what consequences that would have for Roxas.)
And you can't really try to argue that Axel did any of this for Sora's sake, either. Axel doesn't seem to like Sora much, and when he does die for Sora's sake in the end, he makes it clear that it's because Sora is partially Roxas. (I like to interpret it as, "You give me the same feeling he does. Therefore, he's still in you somewhere, and hasn't disappeared completely. Maybe he's happy to be whole. So I can let go.")
I guess what I'm wandering around to saying is, it's not fanon. It's very distinctly canon. If you care that much about someone, it's easy to become lovers. Roxas and Axel just never had the chance.
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That might be an interesting spin on things, if Axel just discovered that he has feelings for Roxas which could be leading to all this desperation in KHII.
I am feeling sorta pulled in and feeling sorry for Axel despite all his murdering and misdeeds in COM. He is a bastard, like you said, but still... there's a line in the Read Or Die movie about "You were a bastard, but not even you deserved to die alone" to more or less that effect.
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(And I don't entirely buy Axel's easy use of emotions, either -- I think he does it sardonically. Nobodies feel things, yes, but saying that is a world away from saying they have FEELINGS, you know? And when Roxas leaves and Axel makes his statement about being sad, there's this hitch in him, like he's stunned by it.)
But, hey. Run with it. ^^
(There is ONE romantic implication in the game that really can't be taken any other way -- when Axel tries to kidnap Kairi the first time, he does so by telling her he'll take her to see Sora, and that the two of them have a lot in common, they're both looking for people they miss. I~ don't think Axel thinks Kairi's just Sora's friend.)
They WERE friends, though. And that much was recipricol, even if Roxas never believed Axel would be as loyal as he turned out to be.
And you can't not feel terrible for Axel.
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Fortunately, so am I.Glad you... enjoyed? XD
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Watch the Holy Water at Church burn me next time we go...Go you.
XD I shouldn'y have enjoyed that. >.<;
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But I usually don't like torturing either of them this much.
...okay, that's a lie. I obviously enjoy torturing Riku, and I love Roxas too much to not torture him.
But still.
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The last paragraph makes me wish you would write more Namine. I love love love her character. When you think about it, she had to have grown SO MUCH since the end of CoM to act as she does in KH2, but you see NONE of it! So sad.
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I'm secretly a huge Namine fan. XD She's so understated and so easy to mischaracterize -- because a lot of people take her KH2 personality without realizing that in CoM she wasn't like that at all. There's an odd evolution of character that you have to squint to see. Just because she's serene in KH2 doesn't mean she's forgotten her trauma in CoM~.
I should write more Namine.